Conversation with Mrs. Padma Kasturi, part - 5
In the last issue, we had the first part of our second
interview between Mrs. Padma Kasturi (commonly called as Padmamma),
daughter of Sri N Kasturi, Swami’s biographer and Ms. Rajeshwari Patel
(RP), an alumnus of Swami’s University and now a faculty member in the
Anantapur campus of Sathya Sai University, which was aired on Radio Sai
a few weeks ago. Now we have the second part – the last in the series
which we hope you have enjoyed.
PK: I also have some
mementos of letters which Swami wrote to me.
RP:
First tell us about that book-mark
that I saw with you; a very unusual book-mark.
PK: In those days when
Swami used to move about in the garden, people would meet Him there
and He would talk to them and suddenly when He was near a coconut palm
tree, He would just pluck out a leaf from there…
RP: A dry one?
PK: No, a green one. |
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RP: Ah yes, it is easier
to bend it then.
PK: Yes. Then He would
split it; take out the strands and then He used to weave it!
RP: In different shapes.
PK: Yes.
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RP: This one looks
almost like a deer!
PK: Yes, it was almost
always a deer. He used to give it to the person nearby and he would
use it as a book-mark. And I got one too.
RP: Ah! That is why I
wanted to know what you had with you! So that’s another memento then!
PK: Yes, of course!
RP: And it shows Swami’s Divine
craftsmanship! Even though He is the Creator; you can see the delicate
touch of the Creator in this book-mark too! Okay, now tell us about
your letters. |
Swami’s Letters of Help
in Family Matters
PK: Since I was married
very young, there was some kind of a misunderstanding between me and my
husband. So to solve that, sometimes Swami used to call us for an
interview to make us clear about the problems. But somehow it was not
getting solved so easily - we couldn’t understand each other very well.
So to convince me, and advise me, and guide me as to how I
should lead the life in the family, Swami used to often write letters to
me. I will read some of the extracts from the letters. I will read it in
the language in which Swami has written. Can you translate it?
RP: Yes, after you
finish the whole letter, I will translate it into English.
PK:
At first He used to write to me in
the Kannada language because I come from Mysore and Bangalore. Then I
started learning Telegu and after I was efficient in Telegu, He
started writing to me in Telegu. But Swami had His own way of writing!
It used to be in the English script; but the language would be
something different!
RP: So He would write
letters to you in Kannada or Telegu but the script would be in
English?
PK: Yes!
RP: Oh! So that you
could read it without difficulty. |
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PK: Yes.
RP: “Whatever be the problems, whether in joy or sorrow, there
should be adjustment between you both. You have got to express yourselves
to each other. Whatever maybe the situation, you should be united, happy
and live without misunderstandings and doubts. You must always be in
bliss. That alone gives Me happiness. What more do I need than that?
Whatever be the vicissitudes of life, your Swami is the resident of your
heart and will take care of you. Like the water bubble that emerges from
water, and merges back in water, Swami will stay in your heart and stroll
in your mental bliss. He will always shower happiness, comfort and
contentment on you. For the sake of this, whatever be the difficulties, be
happy; don’t give room to depression. Namasmarana or repetition of God’s
name will resolve everything.”
PK: Another letter.
RP: When He wrote these letters to you, how did He address you?
PK: First He will write: ‘Padmamma, accept My blessings.’
RP: And how would He sign off the letter?
PK: ‘Yours, Baba.’
RP: Next letter:
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Swami’s Letter on Samsara
“Samsara is the saara or essence of all vishayas or
worldly tendencies. Samsara is a mixture of difficulties and comforts,
truth and untruth, laughter and tears. But in this, you must select
the dharmic; only the righteous – other things you need not concern
yourself with. Samsara is not about a single individual; it is about
husband and wife. The wife mustn’t do anything without the knowledge
of the husband; and the husband in turn must not do anything without
the knowledge of the wife.
Samsara is the coming together of the husband and the
wife; each should share the joys and the sorrows of the other. If
there is a problem, it must be solved between yourselves; it should
not be revealed to a third person. Husband and wife are like the two
eyes of the face; if there is any ailment in one eye, it affects the
one face. You both should live properly in faith and bliss.
Repeat the name of Sairam incessantly; everything will
be fine. I will take care of all matters concerning both of you. You
must remain happy as I have told you. You must feel glad that you have
come to know a lot of things! Know that Swami has done all this to
turn you to the right path. I have written all this out of My
compassion and concern and to see that your family life proceeds on
the right path.” |
Another letter
RP:“In human life there are many ups and downs; and mistakes too. You have
got to control these. You both should be happy; without doubting each
other, you should live happily. That is the characteristic of worldly life
or samsara.”
Earlier,
in the previous letter, He has defined samsara as a mixture of truth and
untruth. So I think He was trying to say that the characteristic of life
is to swim through these difficulties without drowning yourself in the
ocean of worldly existence – which is samsara.
PK: Then after that, the problems increased – my husband lost his
job and my father-in-law had an enlargement of heart, so he had to retire
– he had no job. So there were financial and psychological problems going
on in the house.
RP: Naturally!
PK: And since I had three children; it was really a big problem and
I didn’t know what to do?
RP: Trouble usually comes in battalions!
PK: Yes. So I wrote
a letter and this is the reply He wrote to me in return. But this is
in Telugu language because by that time, I knew how to read and
write Telegu. The letter goes like this -
“Amavasya or the new moon night – dark night - is not
everlasting. Poornima or the full moon night is certain to follow.
Just be patient for some time. Know that Swami’s protective eyes and
watchful eyes are ever on you. Swami will never put you through
difficulties. Because of difficulties coming one after another in
succession, your mind is agitated. This is the time to use Swami’s
name for courage.
Will anyone wear woolen clothes in summer and thin
cotton garments in winter? Never, ever! For the present heated state
of your mind, wear the cooling garments of Bhagavat chintana or
remembrances of God. Do not increase the heat of your mind by
wearing the woolen clothes of Prakriti chintana or thoughts of the
world.
RP: After hearing
this, I remember in one of his poems how Shelley wrote once: ‘If
winter comes, can spring be far behind?’
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Letter written by Swami to Mrs. Padma
Kasturi |
The Lord’s Kindness Knows No Bounds
PK: I would like to
narrate an incident related to this situation where you will understand
Swami’s care and His Compassion. You see, when I was going through this
very difficult financial time and having three children, one day, my
youngest son Rajaram who was born here, he was three years old; he had the
habit of having a biscuit before he had his milk. That day, there was no
biscuit and I couldn’t afford to buy it either – because the situation was
so bad! He started to cry and throw a tantrum and it was very difficult to
convince him.
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RP: Because he wanted
to have his biscuit!
PK: Yes, and because
of the situation, even my mother-in-law was upset at me to have
brought him up like that and to have gotten him into that habit.
RP: For having trained
him to have his biscuit with his milk!
PK: Anyway, I didn’t
know what to do! My only solace was Swami! I wrote a letter to Him:
“Swami! Are you not hearing my child’s cry?” I just poured myself out
in that letter and I mailed it to Puttaparthi. That’s what I had
always done. But unfortunately, Swami was not in Puttaparthi at that
time. I didn’t know that He was on a tour. He wrote after 4 or 5 days.
My parents were in Puttaparthi at that time but I didn’t inform them
about my difficulties or anything. So they didn’t know what was
happening to me.
It seems that as soon as Swami got down from the car,
He asked my father: “Find out if there’s anybody going to Bangalore
tomorrow.”
RP: You were in Bangalore. |
PK: Yes, I was in Bangalore. So he searched and he got somebody and
he told Swami: “Swami there are some people who want to go to Bangalore
tomorrow urgently.”
RP: But you wrote that letter to Puttaparthi! And Swami was just
getting down from the car and asking your father! Which means that maybe
the letter didn’t reach Him physically, but He heard your agony?
PK: Yes. Immediately after getting down from the car, when He came
from the tour, He asked for this. Then He asked my father to put them in
the front for the interview - where they used to sit in the veranda for
the interview. Swami told them: “Please give Padma’s address to them.” My
father was wondering what is all this that Swami is asking - if someone is
going to Bangalore and giving them his daughter’s address.
RP: He didn’t know anything! Swami didn’t tell him anything?
PK: No. He called those people for the interview and gave them a
big cardboard box and said: “Take this address and go to that house and
give it to her.” Same day, in the evening they came and they gave me the
box which had dry fruits from Delhi. I couldn’t express my gratitude!
RP: That is Swami!
PK: My Swami!
RP: You were right when
you said you can’t describe this Swami! That is just Swami!
PK: Then after these
problems were over, my husband wanted to get a job. He thought of
getting a job in Bombay. He went there and it was very difficult for
him to settle down in Bombay. In those days, I had come back to
Puttaparthi with my 3 children. There was no proper school in
Puttaparthi then. So I was planning to go back to Bangalore again and
see to it that these children were educated. But at that time I was
just 28 years old! I didn’t have the courage to go and live all alone
with three children! But if Swami would have physically given me the
permission, I wouldn’t have minded it.
So I sent word with my father to Him that I had decided
to go to Bangalore and live with the children all alone but I want
Your permission directly. Swami didn’t give me any permission here; it
was summer so He went to Bangalore and after going to Bangalore, He
wrote a letter to me. |
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RP: Swami wrote a letter to you!
PK: Yes, and in that He gave me the permission and the courage to
go and stay in Bangalore.
RP: Yes. This is for all mothers I am sure.
“Perform your duties happily.” - Baba
“Right
now, instead of being pre-occupied with other things, busy yourself with
the taking care of the progress of your children, dear one. Make them
virtuous and proficient in sath vidya – knowledge of the Truth. Is this
not the responsibility of the mother? You may be wondering about how long
this is going to go on; but don’t wait for time. Do your duty then time
will disappear in it. In such matters, karma or action is more important
than kala or time. Even if the time is not good, if the action is pure and
good, it will transform or purify time too. The good and bad time is the
result of actions, isn’t it? So follow Swami’s commands and perform your
duties happily and in a righteous manner.
Don’t
shed tears for the kashta and the nashta; the difficulties and the losses;
shed tears instead for the karuna or the mercy of God. There is no one in
this world who is without problems but there are many who are without
Grace. So you have to acquire what you don’t have and not exalt over what
you already have. Don’t keep on thinking about the past; past is past.
Stale food cannot be made fresh again, can it? First think of life’s
support and bliss. That is very important for us; it is also our support.
Use your life time in getting your children educated and making them good
and virtuous individuals.”
PK: So, by going through these problems, I came to understand what
Swami once told me in an interview - Swami is the only real, true relative
and the others are veer bandham – compulsory attachments.
RP: The relation with Swami is Eternal.
PK: And True.
RP: It is before birth and it will always continue.
PK: Yes. So He made me realize this and now I think it was worth
going through these problems so I could come to the conclusion and the
realization. There is one more letter I would like to read.
The Strength to Overcome Suffering
RP: One minute! I just have one small doubt which I think I would
like your opinion on. And I am sure there are others who have similar
doubts; so maybe you are the best person who should answer this.
You would
think that life in general would be much more smooth and less difficult
when Swami is physically close to you. You were one of the inner circles.
So what do you think? Is there an inner significance in the fact that
despite the Divine physical presence, many of Swami’s devotees, who were
‘in’ so to say, experienced some of the most trying situations?
Many of
us – I am not talking about just you – what I feel is that there is
probably some significance. Is Swami putting us through these difficulties
in His physical presence to teach us something? Because generally outside
people would think; if you have God – you know what happened to the
Pandavas - if you have God, you should have no difficulty. But many who
are in the inner circle, in the Grace and the presence of Bhagavan,
experience some of the most difficult situations. Could you give us an
insight into this, based on your own perception of it?
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PK: Yes. Maybe we have
to go through these problems because of our past karmas. Swami takes
us so near and He gives us the strength to pass through these
problems, and to later realize what is real and what is unreal.
RP: Okay. And then
there is one more thing I have noticed in these letters and in some of
the books that I have read. Swami constantly – and I think He is still
saying the same thing until now too – is that, He advises us to and
through your letters too of course; all of us, His devotees, to do
namasmarana. That the name is everything! Don’t you think so? Because
even now, He keeps saying that the times are bad, they are difficult,
but just keep taking the name of God and everything will be alright.
PK: Yes, because it
helps us to keep our mind calm and face the problems.
RP: So there is a lot
of power in the Name of God?
PK: Yes.
RP: Yes, please tell
us about it. |
PK: You see, we usually write letters and give it to Swami, but
sometimes we are not able to give it to Him, and then we feel very sorry
that we were not able to.
RP: We feel disappointed that He didn’t take it, or we couldn’t
give it to Him.
PK: Yes. But it doesn’t matter, because as we write, He knows the
essence of the letters.
RP: He already knows?
PK: Yes. I have got one proof for that!
RP: Okay, please tell us.
Yatra Darshan
PK: Just to give you the background of this letter before I wrote.
Before his retirement, Swami had asked my father to take his mother for a
teertha yatra – like Kashi, Mathura, Brindavan; and Swami told him: “Buy
three tickets, and four of us will travel.” Because Swami said: “I am a
ticketless traveler!” They had been to Delhi and Kashi and all those
places. During that time, my husband had a typhoid attack. He had high
fever and I was very worried. I didn’t have anybody and since my parents
were not there, I felt like I should write a letter to Swami!
So I
wrote a letter to Swami and mailed it to Puttaparthi. But unfortunately, I
didn’t know that Swami was in Kodaikanal.
RP: You didn’t know the Kodai address either!
PK: I didn’t even know that He was in Kodai! I thought He was in
Puttaparthi. After a week or ten days, my husband got better and my
parents came back from their trip. My father had also written a letter to
Swami about his pilgrimage – it seems he had Swami’s Darshan in Kashi,
Mathura and Brindavan too!
RP: Wherever he went!
PK: Yes! So he wrote a letter to Swami about all that; he was so
happy!
RP: Like Shyama in Shirdi Sai Charitra. So he had the Darshan of
Swami in all those places?
PK: Yes! And in reply to that, Swami wrote a letter to my father.
And in it, He has also mentioned about the letter that I wrote to Him too.
In other letters, Swami used not to write dates, but in this letter He
did! This letter was written on 26th May, 1955; it is in Kannada.
“When Swami is with you, what
more is needed?”
- Baba
“Kasturi, the letter you wrote, reached Me in Kodai. Since
I was leaving Kodai the same day, I didn’t have time to reply! I reached
Madras on 25th night, 12 o’clock. Kasturi, I am very happy that your
pilgrimage with your mother passed off well.
When Swami is with you, what more is needed? Name is not
different from Form; the Name points to the Form. When you see the Form,
you remember the Name. When that is the case, that My Name is always
dancing in your heart, naturally, you could see the Form! You could say
that it is all Swami’s sankalpa or Will. No! Sadhana first; then sankalpa.
That is, human effort first, then the Divine Will takes shape. Divine Will
is always in proportion to the power of the devotees’ sadhana. Therefore,
the power of sadhana is important. The master or the teacher gives marks
according to the answers written by the student. Likewise, the Divine Will
manifests based on the sadhana. But for this also, anugraha or the Grace
of God is required.
Poor Padma is in great difficulty. Chandran’s health is not
a problem. When Swami’s daya or compassion is present in full measure,
where is the room for fear? I came and saw that night Padma was writing a
letter to Parthi to Me. The letter has not yet reached, but the contents,
the feelings have reached Me.”
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Precious letters
written by Swami Himself to Prof. Kasturi
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PK: Beautiful letter! So
these are all the mementos I have.
RP: Did you ever think of
putting all this together in the form of a book?
PK: Yes, I am thinking; I have already written
one book in my language – Kannada.
RP:
What is the title of the book?
PK: I have not yet decided.
RP: Are you still
compiling it?
PK: Yes.
RP: How many pages?
PK: It won’t be much;
maybe 100 to 120 pages. It will be a small book with all my
experiences; and with these letters too.
RP: And maybe a more
exhaustive number of letters?
PK: No, not any more
letters; just the same. But maybe more experiences in that. |
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RP: Alright. I think
that’s it for now. Thank you very much. As I said last time, talking to
you is like unraveling secrets. It was a great pleasure for me to converse
with you and I am sure the listeners of Radio Sai Global Harmony will be
extremely grateful to you for sharing with them all these very rare and
beautiful experiences that you had with Swami.
PK: Thank you Rajeshwari and Radio Sai for
having given me this opportunity to share all my experiences with Bhagavan
with all the listeners. And in a very extreme form of tribute to Swami,
that I have been able to say it. Sairam.
RP: Thank you, Sairam.
(To be
continued...)
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Heart2Heart
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